10/19/2013
10/18/2013
BACKSLIDING AND BEING RESTORED
BACKSLIDING AND RESTORATION
PETER'S EARLY SUCCESS'
I was thinking about Peter "the waterwalker", the "first apostle to recieve the revelation of the Christ", the person of whom Jesus said "your name is Peter".
Simon's means A reed is very fragile; it is easily blown about in the wind. Another meaning is "he has heard". What a powerful meaning. Simon Peter, the one "who heard" the revelation of the "rock" which is Christ.
Peter was brave--When a band of men came to take Jesus away "he cuts one of their ears off with a sword" (John 18).
THE PROPHECY PETER REJECTED
IN the book of John Chapter 22 the disciples sit at the Lord's table and for the first time in History, communion is taken. The bread and wine become symbols of Jesus death and the forgiveness of sin. (LUKE 22:14-23) yet what happens next is crazy.
Jesus says LUKE 22:31 And the Lord said,[c] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
DENYING JESUS AND BACKSLIDING
JESUS SAID "SATAN has asked for you", He wants to "sift you as wheat". Peter was probably listening with a doubtful heart thinking to himself Im the "rock" remember. Your the son of God and you prophesied to me I am the rock.
So Peter interrupts and says Luke 22:33 But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.”
Peter didn't even listen to Jesus. Jesus had just said "BUT I HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU THAT YOUR FAITH MAY NOT FAIL"
Then Jesus says LUKE 22:34 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”
Because Agape means you will be willing to die for someone. Just as as in John 3:16 is a love that "sacrifices".
Jesus meets Peter where he is. Peter is afraid to say that He will AGAPE-LOVE Jesus and be willing to die for him since he had just denied him, on top of that he had gone back to his old ways "fishing".
but then Jesus says
John 21:18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” 19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.”"
Peter was afraid to say Lord i AGAPE-LOVE but then Jesus says the day will come when you will glorify me in your death.
After making this promise to Peter Jesus says "FOLLOW ME".
Peter does go on to struggle with faithfulness to the Lord, He even denies him again (Galatians 2:11-21) yet does not give up. He continues to follow the Lord.
Peter got up from His backslidden state and properly lead the Church as it's primary leader along with Paul. He also went on to Write 2 letters of the New Testament which continue to encourage all Christians just as Jesus had prophetically encouraged Him "But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren" Luke 22:32
History states that when Peter was going to be crucified he requested to be crucified upside down because he felt he was unworthy "of being crucified like his Lord".
Meditating on the story of Peter encouraged me to know that God's love will always find us where we are. Even if we have denied him. Even if we have returned to our old ways. His original calling upon our lives is irrevocable, he still wants us to feed and tend for his sheep and lambs. (Rom 11:29).
Peter may have been totally discouraged but Jesus came and said to him what he had said to him in the beginning FOLLOW ME.
This is what i feel God has done with me, in the beginning of my walk with Him He said FOLLOW ME and today he again says meeting me right where i am FOLLOW ME BECAUSE IN THE END YOU WILL GLORIFY ME JUST LIKE PETER.
PETER'S EARLY SUCCESS'
I was thinking about Peter "the waterwalker", the "first apostle to recieve the revelation of the Christ", the person of whom Jesus said "your name is Peter".
Simon's means A reed is very fragile; it is easily blown about in the wind. Another meaning is "he has heard". What a powerful meaning. Simon Peter, the one "who heard" the revelation of the "rock" which is Christ.
Peter was brave--When a band of men came to take Jesus away "he cuts one of their ears off with a sword" (John 18).
THE PROPHECY PETER REJECTED
IN the book of John Chapter 22 the disciples sit at the Lord's table and for the first time in History, communion is taken. The bread and wine become symbols of Jesus death and the forgiveness of sin. (LUKE 22:14-23) yet what happens next is crazy.
Jesus says LUKE 22:31 And the Lord said,[c] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
DENYING JESUS AND BACKSLIDING
JESUS SAID "SATAN has asked for you", He wants to "sift you as wheat". Peter was probably listening with a doubtful heart thinking to himself Im the "rock" remember. Your the son of God and you prophesied to me I am the rock.
So Peter interrupts and says Luke 22:33 But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.”
Peter didn't even listen to Jesus. Jesus had just said "BUT I HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU THAT YOUR FAITH MAY NOT FAIL"
Then Jesus says LUKE 22:34 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”
Peter must have been reminded of the statement that Jesus had given before when he said "Jesus said, "Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 10:32,33)."
Peter was like no way i will not deny you " “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.”
yet not long after this Peter denies Jesus three times, "He went out and wept bitterly", this is interesting because years later the Church would excommunicate people who would deny Jesus in the face of persecution. Jesus wept bitterly because he had backslidden.
Peter was like no way i will not deny you " “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.”
yet not long after this Peter denies Jesus three times, "He went out and wept bitterly", this is interesting because years later the Church would excommunicate people who would deny Jesus in the face of persecution. Jesus wept bitterly because he had backslidden.
RETURNING TO HIS OLD WAYS
He was so discouraged that he went back to fishing (JOHN 21:4-6)
Interestingly they could not even catch anything. Jesus as our ever loving savior eats with those who had rejected him.
He was so discouraged that he went back to fishing (JOHN 21:4-6)
Interestingly they could not even catch anything. Jesus as our ever loving savior eats with those who had rejected him.
DO YOU AGAPE-LOVE ME: JESUS SEEKS TO RESTORE PETER
Then when they finished eating Jesus says "Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love (agape) me more than these?”
Peter was discouraged since he had denied Jesus, he was so afraid that he responds "“Yes, Lord; you know that I love (philō-care) you.” (Luke 21:15).
Jesus is saying do you love me with all your heart, Peter was afraid to respond. He had fallen and he doubted himself. Yet Jesus still said " “feed my lambs.”.
Then he asks him again “Simon, son of John, do you love (agape) me?”
and again he says “Yes, Lord; you know that I love (care) you.” Jesus then says "tend my sheep".
Jesus is saying do you love me with all your heart, Peter was afraid to respond. He had fallen and he doubted himself. Yet Jesus still said " “feed my lambs.”.
Then he asks him again “Simon, son of John, do you love (agape) me?”
and again he says “Yes, Lord; you know that I love (care) you.” Jesus then says "tend my sheep".
JESUS MEETS PETER WHERE HE IS:
Yet what amazes me is that Jesus says He meets Simon where he is.
“Simon, son of John, do you love (philes- which also means CARE) me?”
Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love (philō-CARE) you.” Jesus then says "feed my sheep"
JESUS WAS LIKE I KNOW THAT because you have backslidden, you know longer have the courage to say you LOVE-AGAPE. Yet what amazes me is that Jesus says He meets Simon where he is.
“Simon, son of John, do you love (philes- which also means CARE) me?”
Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love (philō-CARE) you.” Jesus then says "feed my sheep"
Because Agape means you will be willing to die for someone. Just as as in John 3:16 is a love that "sacrifices".
Jesus meets Peter where he is. Peter is afraid to say that He will AGAPE-LOVE Jesus and be willing to die for him since he had just denied him, on top of that he had gone back to his old ways "fishing".
but then Jesus says
John 21:18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” 19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.”"
Peter was afraid to say Lord i AGAPE-LOVE but then Jesus says the day will come when you will glorify me in your death.
After making this promise to Peter Jesus says "FOLLOW ME".
Peter does go on to struggle with faithfulness to the Lord, He even denies him again (Galatians 2:11-21) yet does not give up. He continues to follow the Lord.
Peter got up from His backslidden state and properly lead the Church as it's primary leader along with Paul. He also went on to Write 2 letters of the New Testament which continue to encourage all Christians just as Jesus had prophetically encouraged Him "But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren" Luke 22:32
History states that when Peter was going to be crucified he requested to be crucified upside down because he felt he was unworthy "of being crucified like his Lord".
Meditating on the story of Peter encouraged me to know that God's love will always find us where we are. Even if we have denied him. Even if we have returned to our old ways. His original calling upon our lives is irrevocable, he still wants us to feed and tend for his sheep and lambs. (Rom 11:29).
Peter may have been totally discouraged but Jesus came and said to him what he had said to him in the beginning FOLLOW ME.
This is what i feel God has done with me, in the beginning of my walk with Him He said FOLLOW ME and today he again says meeting me right where i am FOLLOW ME BECAUSE IN THE END YOU WILL GLORIFY ME JUST LIKE PETER.
9/03/2013
The Holy Spirit, My Best Friend.
Recently I Have been spending a lot of time in communion with the Holy Spirit and I have come to realize that he is the Most important Person on earth.
For years I rejected his friendship reducing Him to "power", "gifts" and worse of all " a tool". He was present to make me useful but like an unkind friend I used Him. For years I had a boss/employee relationship (keep in mind I wasn't the best employee) and for the most part it was a relationship of duty rather than delight.
I wonder how I must have made Him Feel.
This has truly changed since I came to the SOBER realization that the Spirit is a "gentleman" who comes only If we Ask. Who is after relationship only if we commit. Who yearns jealously over a deep personal relationship. He is neither pushy nor Impatient, He waits, waits and waits. To be spoken to....to be heard...to be taken into consideration as more than "power" but as a friend, He is a gentle God.
He often comes like the wind,
He lights darkest Night like fire, Refreshes the wounded/lost like water.
While metaphors can be used to describe Him, yet they often reduce Him to a thing, His best description is "THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT".
He is a companion to those who desire his presence.
He will never betray your confidence or embarrass you because of your mistakes. He covers, protects and cares.
As I have talked to Him it has been difficult at times because He reveals the wickedness of my heart yet immediately he refreshes my soul. When condemnation sets in, His presence immediately comes, reaffirming me with the divine word, "you are my son". When the enemy taunts me, He speaks to me "nothing is impossible with God" when all I see is failure, he places "eye salve" in my eyes and says "look to Christ".
The other day I apologized to Him for neglecting Him and for using me, and as a loving Father I felt Him weep yet I never sensed His rejection, I felt His embrace, His love and care.
Not that He overlooked my sin, but rather He stated specifically "David if you repent and turn to me with ALL your heart, you will see my glory, blessing and yes my power"
I was so humble by this because for the first time in my life, I wasn't after power, I was after HIM!
6/16/2013
A candid response to "False Teachers by Shai Linne"
The body of Christ is bigger than one stream; there are many unique streams that feed into the River of Life. Years ago, Rick Joyner stated the following "Movements enter the church as tributary streams that keep the River of Life flowing. Even so, we must not be distracted from the River of Life by following a mere tributary. We must let tributaries have their positive effect, but not let them dictate our course." The Lord is not my denomination, stream or network. He may choose to use us, but let us not be like the donkey Jesus was sitting on, who assumed that the welcome party was for him. He may come to us in the form of an orthodox or reformed brother, maybe a Pentecostal, or a Charismatic, a Mennonite or Catholic, but God is not our denomination; though he may use us. God can, and will choose many ways in which to present Himself. He will flow through the tributaries (streams) of His choosing and without our permission.
CONTROVERSIAL TRUTH OR MERE OPINION
I recently heard a Christian rap song called "False Teachers". While the song manifested deep lyrical skill, which I enjoyed, as well as some points which I agreed with, yet listening to it left me embarrassed, disheartened and deeply disappointed that I am associated with the Christian Hip Hop Movement. To the beginner in the faith, the song can lead them down the unfortunate path of "fault-finding" and "criticism" which I may remind you are both sin. To the author’s credit on the other hand, the song is well written; unfortunately of course, I doubt it did any good, for criticism is never productive. At best, the song resulted in a deeper wedge between those who are "Charismatics" and those who are "Reformed", especially when it was applauded by leaders the likes of John Piper himself. I personally spoke to the author of the song addressing what I believe to be a serious issue. I spoke to him asking "Why he was attacking Charismatics?” his response was that "The song is not written against charismatics and that I did not know his position on the Charismatic movement.” In which I responded, "Then, why not name anyone from the 'reformed stream' of the body of Christ?" (I made the suggestion because obviously Shai Linne's theological foundation stands on the reformed stream). He said to me, "So your problem is the fact that I used names?" I said, "No, I have no problem with using names, if what you were saying were true", but it isn’t true.
TRUTH VS MERE OPINION
We have to distinguish between truth (which God will side with) and our opinion (which God may not side with). I agree with Shai Linne in regards to the extreme abuses of the prosperity message, but to say that someone is a false teacher because they hold "a" doctrine that may be untrue (inaccurate) or false is wrong. To call someone a false teacher because they hold a different opinion than my own is also wrong, not to mention unbiblical. We must also consider that the prosperity gospel does contain biblical truths which we mutually share and agree with. For Instance, both Reformed and Charismatic streams use "the Malachi 3 Promise" to motivate their members to tithe. The promise simply states, “If we tithe faithfully, God will open up the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing that we will not be able to contain.” This is but one example of the text shared by both sides. So we must be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. But as I stated, this is a bigger issue than the prosperity gospel.
LEVELING OUT THE PLAYING FIELD
It is fair to say that the ministers in question are not false teachers. They do not deny Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, the cross, the resurrection, the ascension or the return of Christ. They may have some inaccurate doctrines but this does not make them false teachers. They may have popularized certain teachings that have done more damage than good, but this is insufficient evidence to make them "false teachers per se". To be fair, let’s even out the playing field a little with some examples:
-John MacArthur, (highly popular) teaches that the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased with the Apostles. This is not just untrue; according to the bible, such teaching is false. Does that make Macarthur a false teacher?
-John Piper has long held the doctrine of Unconditional Election; that is, that God chooses whom to “Save” and who “Not to save”. Yet, the doctrine has long been debated by men of God the likes of John Wesley. In fact, Wesley would say, "Saying that God has chosen you for damnation goes against his basic nature which is love". Does this error make Piper a false teacher?
-Mark Driscoll, whose book on doctrine states that those of us who fervently believe in the power of the Spirit and focus mainly on the Spirit we are guilty of what he calls "holyspiritolitry" (if there such a thing). Of course, He was referring to the Methodist-Pentecostal-Charismatic stream and need I remind you is "to the date" the most powerful missional force worldwide (must be due to our holyspiritolitry, excuse the sarcasm). Now I won't even get into the whole "lube" issue (which is just disgusting) in his recent marriage book, but let me ask, do these errors make Mark Driscoll a false teacher? My answer is a triple NO!
HOLDING FAST TO WHAT IS EVIL
I may disagree with MacArthur on his Calvinistic points of view. I may disagree with Piper on Unconditional Election among many other things. I may disagree with Driscoll on the Holy Spirit; however these disagreements are insufficient to call any of these men "false teachers"; although my Arminianistic mind will drive me to vehemently disagree with each of them on many points. Even so, I cannot call any of them False Teachers solely on their false teachings. Truthfully, I have to confess, I have greatly benefited from each of these men. How is this possible? It’s simple; I was honestly trying to hear from God through their ministries. I wasn’t listening with my mind set on doctrinal fault-finding which was Shai Linne's fundamental mistake. He picked leaders whom he had not sat under to benefit from and was listening for errors rather than Truth (Errors which he found). Thereby neglecting the scriptures admonition to "hold fast to what is good" not what is "bad" as a result he wrote a one sided song which has done more damage than good.
THE SONG
When I first heard the song, I couldn’t believe my ears; so I hit replay. Over and over I listened carefully for truth, but the half-truths the song contained were too blatant to ignore. After listening to the song I researched to see if anyone in the Holy Hip Hop community addressed the song, unfortunately no one had. Now I’m not going to make the same mistake of acting like the spiritual police, but this was no small mistake, this was a blatant attack. I asked around in the Holy Hip Hop community to see what people thought about the song. Most simply sang along with it or applauded the work. Those who didn't like the song simply stayed quiet, even though the song grieved them. My question to them was why don't you address it? Hasn't God given you a platform in music to confront these things? But many simply felt they didn’t want to stir up more controversy.
This formal address comes after having already discussed the issue personally with Shai Linne through email and twitter…
QUESTIONS THAT LEAD TO ANSWERS
Here are some questions that will lead to some obvious answers to the searching heart.
Mr. Shai Linne:
-You said you addressed the issue before and it had been years since you addressed it. So is it safe to say that you took the time to consider your targets? If this is true, isn’t it obvious that you targeted Charismatic word of Faith Leaders specifically?
-You mentioned that Kenneth Copeland is a false teacher. Some of his teachings were taught by David Yongii Cho, would you say David Cho is a false teacher as well? Keep in mind; this is the Pastor of the world’s largest Church?
-You said you let some Pastors hear the song and they approved it. Were any of them strong Pentecostal-Charismatics who have benefited from the ministries of Benny Hinn?
-If you say Benny Hinn is a false teacher, don’t you realize that this would include people like; Cash Luna, Guillermo Maldonado, David Cho, Pat Robertson and many who hold to prosperity teachings, who have each impacted the lives of thousands and brought healing to so many, including my mother from cancer?
-Do you realize that the song does more damage than good?
-Do you realize that your name calling only drives deeper wedges between two streams that have struggled to get along for the longest (Calvin-Arminian, Wesley-Whitefield, Baptist-Methodist, Pentecostal, Charismatics)?
-If a false teaching makes you a “False Teacher”, can you please write a song against McArthur, Piper and Driscoll next?
David Davila and Tha Mission (PTM)
Houston TX
June 20, 2012
Mission4000
CONTROVERSIAL TRUTH OR MERE OPINION
I recently heard a Christian rap song called "False Teachers". While the song manifested deep lyrical skill, which I enjoyed, as well as some points which I agreed with, yet listening to it left me embarrassed, disheartened and deeply disappointed that I am associated with the Christian Hip Hop Movement. To the beginner in the faith, the song can lead them down the unfortunate path of "fault-finding" and "criticism" which I may remind you are both sin. To the author’s credit on the other hand, the song is well written; unfortunately of course, I doubt it did any good, for criticism is never productive. At best, the song resulted in a deeper wedge between those who are "Charismatics" and those who are "Reformed", especially when it was applauded by leaders the likes of John Piper himself. I personally spoke to the author of the song addressing what I believe to be a serious issue. I spoke to him asking "Why he was attacking Charismatics?” his response was that "The song is not written against charismatics and that I did not know his position on the Charismatic movement.” In which I responded, "Then, why not name anyone from the 'reformed stream' of the body of Christ?" (I made the suggestion because obviously Shai Linne's theological foundation stands on the reformed stream). He said to me, "So your problem is the fact that I used names?" I said, "No, I have no problem with using names, if what you were saying were true", but it isn’t true.
TRUTH VS MERE OPINION
We have to distinguish between truth (which God will side with) and our opinion (which God may not side with). I agree with Shai Linne in regards to the extreme abuses of the prosperity message, but to say that someone is a false teacher because they hold "a" doctrine that may be untrue (inaccurate) or false is wrong. To call someone a false teacher because they hold a different opinion than my own is also wrong, not to mention unbiblical. We must also consider that the prosperity gospel does contain biblical truths which we mutually share and agree with. For Instance, both Reformed and Charismatic streams use "the Malachi 3 Promise" to motivate their members to tithe. The promise simply states, “If we tithe faithfully, God will open up the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing that we will not be able to contain.” This is but one example of the text shared by both sides. So we must be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. But as I stated, this is a bigger issue than the prosperity gospel.
LEVELING OUT THE PLAYING FIELD
It is fair to say that the ministers in question are not false teachers. They do not deny Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, the cross, the resurrection, the ascension or the return of Christ. They may have some inaccurate doctrines but this does not make them false teachers. They may have popularized certain teachings that have done more damage than good, but this is insufficient evidence to make them "false teachers per se". To be fair, let’s even out the playing field a little with some examples:
-John MacArthur, (highly popular) teaches that the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased with the Apostles. This is not just untrue; according to the bible, such teaching is false. Does that make Macarthur a false teacher?
-John Piper has long held the doctrine of Unconditional Election; that is, that God chooses whom to “Save” and who “Not to save”. Yet, the doctrine has long been debated by men of God the likes of John Wesley. In fact, Wesley would say, "Saying that God has chosen you for damnation goes against his basic nature which is love". Does this error make Piper a false teacher?
-Mark Driscoll, whose book on doctrine states that those of us who fervently believe in the power of the Spirit and focus mainly on the Spirit we are guilty of what he calls "holyspiritolitry" (if there such a thing). Of course, He was referring to the Methodist-Pentecostal-Charismatic stream and need I remind you is "to the date" the most powerful missional force worldwide (must be due to our holyspiritolitry, excuse the sarcasm). Now I won't even get into the whole "lube" issue (which is just disgusting) in his recent marriage book, but let me ask, do these errors make Mark Driscoll a false teacher? My answer is a triple NO!
HOLDING FAST TO WHAT IS EVIL
I may disagree with MacArthur on his Calvinistic points of view. I may disagree with Piper on Unconditional Election among many other things. I may disagree with Driscoll on the Holy Spirit; however these disagreements are insufficient to call any of these men "false teachers"; although my Arminianistic mind will drive me to vehemently disagree with each of them on many points. Even so, I cannot call any of them False Teachers solely on their false teachings. Truthfully, I have to confess, I have greatly benefited from each of these men. How is this possible? It’s simple; I was honestly trying to hear from God through their ministries. I wasn’t listening with my mind set on doctrinal fault-finding which was Shai Linne's fundamental mistake. He picked leaders whom he had not sat under to benefit from and was listening for errors rather than Truth (Errors which he found). Thereby neglecting the scriptures admonition to "hold fast to what is good" not what is "bad" as a result he wrote a one sided song which has done more damage than good.
THE SONG
When I first heard the song, I couldn’t believe my ears; so I hit replay. Over and over I listened carefully for truth, but the half-truths the song contained were too blatant to ignore. After listening to the song I researched to see if anyone in the Holy Hip Hop community addressed the song, unfortunately no one had. Now I’m not going to make the same mistake of acting like the spiritual police, but this was no small mistake, this was a blatant attack. I asked around in the Holy Hip Hop community to see what people thought about the song. Most simply sang along with it or applauded the work. Those who didn't like the song simply stayed quiet, even though the song grieved them. My question to them was why don't you address it? Hasn't God given you a platform in music to confront these things? But many simply felt they didn’t want to stir up more controversy.
This formal address comes after having already discussed the issue personally with Shai Linne through email and twitter…
QUESTIONS THAT LEAD TO ANSWERS
Here are some questions that will lead to some obvious answers to the searching heart.
Mr. Shai Linne:
-You said you addressed the issue before and it had been years since you addressed it. So is it safe to say that you took the time to consider your targets? If this is true, isn’t it obvious that you targeted Charismatic word of Faith Leaders specifically?
-You mentioned that Kenneth Copeland is a false teacher. Some of his teachings were taught by David Yongii Cho, would you say David Cho is a false teacher as well? Keep in mind; this is the Pastor of the world’s largest Church?
-You said you let some Pastors hear the song and they approved it. Were any of them strong Pentecostal-Charismatics who have benefited from the ministries of Benny Hinn?
-If you say Benny Hinn is a false teacher, don’t you realize that this would include people like; Cash Luna, Guillermo Maldonado, David Cho, Pat Robertson and many who hold to prosperity teachings, who have each impacted the lives of thousands and brought healing to so many, including my mother from cancer?
-Do you realize that the song does more damage than good?
-Do you realize that your name calling only drives deeper wedges between two streams that have struggled to get along for the longest (Calvin-Arminian, Wesley-Whitefield, Baptist-Methodist, Pentecostal, Charismatics)?
-If a false teaching makes you a “False Teacher”, can you please write a song against McArthur, Piper and Driscoll next?
David Davila and Tha Mission (PTM)
Houston TX
June 20, 2012
Mission4000
4/06/2013
SUICIDE: I hope they went to heaven.
To those of us in a pastoral role suicide is more then a debate, it is a issue hard to deal with, difficult to address and at best impossible to tackle without misunderstandings. For several reason;
- If believe that suicide will result in hell--your are considered cold and unloving.
- If believe that you can retain your salvation even in suicide--your believe may be taken as compromise.
Regardless of the position you take, addressing it will be no easy task. As doing so in this article isn't.
While the bible is silent in the sense that it does not specifically say that one will go to hell for committing suicide, it does not say that you will go to heaven either. (This should give us some concern, if not deep caution). My biggest concern with those who believe that you will go to heaven even if you commit suicide tend to voice their position almost apologetically yet accuse you of lovelessness if you oppose them.
At the same time those of us who oppose such a position run the danger of being careless with our words and unloving with our actions. I believe that a balance must be reached but not without debate and some disagreement. To think that the balance will be reached without debate and (heated disagreement) is ludicrous, immature and idealistic. Acts 15:2 gives us an example of such a debate and states "they had no small disagreement" (AMP) they got into "a sharp dispute" (NIV) before they reached a consensus.
If this issue is to be address, I believe there must be a level of freedom to take either position without the fear of being judged (condemned) for it. Regardless of the backlash we should take a position and not simply flow with the party spirit. It most be noted that those who believe that you can go to heaven even if you commit suicide maybe authentic Christians, while at the same time those who believe that you cannot go to heaven if you commit suicide may also be authentic Christians. Christian fellowship is determined by the cross not pet doctrines.
This is one thing that truly concerned us here in Houston Texas, back in May of 2012 we presented our position in song format--horror struck. What is truly interesting about the back round of the song is that we didn't want to do it but almost felt forced to do it. The suicide of a Houston local artist resulted in a song that was released which stated beyond the shadow of a doubt that the person went to heaven. While we didn't dispute the possibility of someone going to heaven, we also felt that it was necessary to give the other side of the coin--the possibility of damnation.
https://soundcloud.com/mission4000/ptm-suicide-vs-martyrdom
What is amazing about that season in our lives was that our rap ministry (which addressed the issue) was the backlash for presenting a position. During the early part of 2012 we where gaining ground, access and influence within the Christian Hip Hop community as Artists around the city but the moment we addressed the issue--brothers that used to fellowship with us, all of a sudden severed their ties with us. Invitations ceased, radio slots where cancelled all because we presented a position against suicide or different from others.
What was interesting is that we gave a formal announcement, giving the reasons for our position.
https://soundcloud.com/david-davila-2/suicide-vs-martyrdom-the
https://soundcloud.com/david-davila-2/suicide-vs-martyrdom-part-2
We even waited for this particular situation to be addressed in a more balanced by our brothers but it was never done.
In the second announcement I stated that my concern wasn't with "the eternal state of our brother who committed suicide" but with the way we address it. I said several times, "If you don't want me to say that someone went to hell, don't say they went to heaven. Leave that to God"
Now i am giving this back round for the sake of an example of what happens when you take a stand for a position.
HOW THEN SHALL WE DEAL WITH IT:
The safest way to deal with this issue is to say "I hope so and so went to heaven". Rather then saying He/She went to heaven or hell, we should say we "HOPE" that so and so went to heaven but since the bible is silent, all we can do is Hope. This I believe will give us a safety net against making the mistake of giving false hope to those considering suicide while also giving no hope to those who are left behind after a Believing loved one has committed suicide.
WHAT SHOULD WE DO: I believe that we should pray and pray ardently for Rick Warren and His family. Along with any family (Christian and Non-Christian) who has suffered the loss of a loved one through suicide.
We should maintain a deep loving with the Christian community regardless
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